Episode 10: Finding Your "Superpower" And Your Path with Persephone Zill
Join your host Betsy Bush as she speaks with Director of the Women's Business Center Persephone Zill. They discuss Persephone's advice for people looking for a change in their career path, how to discover your own "superpower," and Betsy walks listeners through a mental exercise to understand how ambitious they can be!
Mentioned:
Women’s Enterprise Development Center
The US Small Business Administration
Transcript:
Betsy Bush (01:01):
My guest today is Persephone Zill. She is program director of the Women's Enterprise Development Center in White Plains, New York. Persephone , we have been talking on the latest version about people in mid-life making transitions. And that is exactly what you help people do at the, what we're calling WEDC, which is it's a mouthful for Women's Enterprise Development Center. You have, not only helped many, many women make a transition from whatever career or life journey they'd been on to looking at what they want to do and helping make those dreams a reality. But I also think that you have gone on this journey yourself. And so you have been able because you have had that experience to help people figure out what it is they want to do next. Tell us a little bit about your own journey.
Persephone Zill (01:59):
Sure. Uh, thank you, Betsy. And it's my pleasure to be here today and to represent WEDC. We're a resource partner of the Small Business Administration and our purpose is to help women and minorities start and grow businesses. And yes, we do absolutely assist at transition points in people's careers, um, to basically take that, dream that's in your heart and, and come and learn about what a business plan is and marketing and social media and, um, business structures, and legal aspects. And, anyway, we help develop, take that dream and make it into an actionable plan. So, um, you asked about my own personal experience. Um, when my children were little, I had my own, uh, business and career coaching practice. I, got to experience all the both positives and the sort of challenges of being in business, um, in terms of having to develop a brand and a website and go out and market myself. And I absolutely loved the work I loved working one-on-one, but I just wasn't much of a self promoter. Um, and kind of entrepreneurship requires a lot of you are the product or service and you need to keep, um, positioning yourself and branding yourself. And, um, and so I ended up after about three years...
Betsy Bush (03:31):
Any Podcaster will tell you yes, any podcaster will tell you it's a lot about branding yourself.
Persephone Zill (03:39):
Sure. About three years I actually dissolved my coaching business, um, and decided to work at the non-profit where I currently am, uh, where the clients come to us from the marketing by the boats that are non-profit and also the small business administration. And, um, so why, when I help people, when I counsel people, I very much know what I'm talking about. Um, and for me, the right decision was to actually go back and work as a team. I will always tell clients that come in, um, you have to really enjoy problems. You have to wake up as an entrepreneur and say, you know, who do I know? How can they help me, um, you know, really enjoy kind of the juggling of many different aspects of things. So it could be everything from, you know, the employees to the marketing, to the financing, to the, taking the trash out at the end of the night.
Persephone Zill (04:35):
You know, you really have to enjoy juggling and kind of setting your mind to, um, action action. A lot, a lot of people want to start businesses, but they really just keep thinking about it and keep testing that website, but they're not really taking the actions. And so that's how we at WEDC really try to create a safe, we have a four month class where you develop your business plan and it's a sort of safe environment to really reveal, you know, I don't like looking at the finances or I'm uncomfortable doing the sales pitch or asking for the credit card. Um, and so we do a training where you work on those skills, um, with other people and realize you're not alone. Um, it is kind of, I call it growing your courage muscle. Um, and so we offer the business education as well as the empowerment and the practice, uh, to do this, to take your idea and really roll it out.
Betsy Bush (05:34):
Do you find that there are people who have, there's just a large disconnect between what they want to do, what they envision themselves doing and where they are at that moment, or even do they have the skills or the knowledge to get from where they are to that point that they envision. And what do you do when it comes to redirecting someone into something that's maybe more realistic? Do you do, do you encourage the dream or do you say let's scale back that dream and make that something that's achievable?
Persephone Zill (06:09):
That's a great question. And, um, when people come in for counseling before taking our class, yes, I absolutely try to work with them on what are their passions, what are their skills, their kind of natural abilities, gifts, and talents, and then what experiences have they had in their working life and even their hobbies that really would, if you sort of look at the Venn diagram of their interests, their passions, their skills, and their experiences. I try to guide gently sometimes redirecting to things that are business ideas that are a fit for who they are. Um, not something that maybe they just see a need in the marketplace, or they have an interest in growing and learning in that direction, but it doesn't necessarily use what they have to work with. And I think of a client that went through our training in the fall, and she wanted a roller rink in Westchester, and she spent a lot of energy figuring out real estate and licenses and just all sorts of, what would go into starting and managing a large property and all the headaches and things that could come up.
Persephone Zill (07:36):
And by the end of the class, she realized she didn't have the financing for that scale of a roller rink. She wasn't really that interested in operating a property. And so by the end of the class, she had identified that children's programming, um, engaging children in very interesting programming that would enrich their lives and help with maybe getting out of circumstances that were not ideal. That was her passion. And so that was a much more realistic idea to pursue. And so, um, she took our four month class, but she didn't spend the time, energy and money starting a roller rink. Um, she realized after a sort of de-risking process, which is what the business planning process is that, um, that it was more the programming than anything to do with, um, owning and operating a roller rink.
Betsy Bush (08:36):
That is so interesting. So she had this idea of maybe kids having fun, doing something on the weekends that with, you know, a bunch of friends and, and so, and she pictured that on a roller rink, that activity could happen someplace else that wouldn't involve, I mean, a roller rink in Westchester. It's very ambitious. Um, and so maybe, yeah. Okay. So that's, that's an incredibly valuable process to have gone through and saved her. I'm sure.
Persephone Zill (09:14):
Time, energy, money. Um, and that's what we really recommend if you, you know, are at a point and you want to switch careers, test it out, you know, go and work part-time, um, doing an internship or volunteer and really see, does it match with what your interests and abilities are? I know when I was in graduate school, I got an MBA. I had thought I wanted to open a gift shop. And I worked for a semester in, um, for a manufacture's reps in the gift industry in New York city. I worked for a manufacturers rep and, um, I did not have the skills. I did not know how to put things out on a shelf in a beautiful way. I didn't know how to really identify the hot trend, the new, um, frame or belt buckle or vase. Um, and yet I got a lot of sample sale gifts from my, you know, my semester working there. I met some really nice people, but I realized that, um, just from seeing all the gift shop owners come through to pick out their newest line of what they were going to offer the next season, um, that, that wasn't my skillset. And so I still love gifts to this day, but I'm really glad I did not open a gift shop.
Betsy Bush (10:43):
Interesting. Sometimes we have this dream of, you know, maybe you're sitting at your desk at a boring job and you're thinking, oh, right now I could be doing, you know, whatever. Um, maybe sitting at home, writing a book and then, you know, if you make that transition and maybe you find that you hate being by yourself and writing a book because you're not getting anything written and maybe it's, there's something else there that is is, is possible, or yeah, is more realistic
Persephone Zill (11:15):
I say ask the people around you, your friends and family, because sometimes our unique, special, super power I've heard it called. Um, we don't even know ourselves because it comes so easily to us. Um, I happen to be, my natural gifts are synthesizing. I can take data, I can take stories I can take. And I really have an ability to get at the essence of what something is from a lot of information. Um, and I remember I managed a grocery store in college. That's how I got into this. I was the general manager of like the deli on my college campus at Columbia university. It's called Fernald grocery. Um, and it was back in the, uh, late eighties. Um, but, um, I remember I had to do the schedule of the staff and we had a lot of students and they had, um, only sort of three hour chunks available.
Persephone Zill (12:17):
And they had certain areas of the store. They like to do some, like to stock others like to work at the cash register. So it was a big, giant puzzle. And every week I would have to assign, I think it was like 80 students, their schedule for the week, according to when they could come and what they like to do. And some people might find that just a really daunting process. But for me, it was like, I just, I'm all about people and kind of helping people sort of be their best, transform. And so for me, it was the early seeds of that weekly schedule was fun for me. I enjoyed how do I make this work? Like what we need in the store with what our staff wants and is available to do and is good at. Um, and so, um, so to me, that is what we're all looking for to find that thing that comes very naturally and easy to us because when you build a business around it, it doesn't feel like work and, and you're going to be working so hard on the other things. I mentioned, all the problem solving and the, and the juggling that the core product or service should really play to your unique gifts and talents and interests. And, um, and so that's why sometimes asking those around us, they can say, oh my goodness, design, you're a design person, or your cook, like a spa chef. You know, like the people around us see our talents sometimes better than we can ourselves.
Betsy Bush (13:52):
You know, that that's so interesting because I've, I've had guests on and I would say, you're so artistic. You have just such a great sense of design and color, and they will completely, you know, no, that's, that's, that's not me at all. I've never thought of myself as artistic, but, um, you, but this person clearly is. So maybe we don't see in ourselves our own superpowers. Um, can you talk a little bit more about this concept of, of the super power? Because I think it's something that we don't think about as something we should capitalize on that we're always chasing or, uh, thinking about the things we can't do as well. And so maybe we need to operate or, or, or work on the things we don't do as well, but we, and we disregard the things that come naturally to us.
Persephone Zill (14:44):
Something I've thought a lot about is how, when we go through the schooling system, our education, we come knowing I'm not great at math, or I struggle with science or, you know, we come out knowing what we shouldn't do. We don't come out knowing what we should do. So, um, so I always tell people to look for the things in their lives, when they're in the flow, where they don't even see time passing, it just is fascinating. What, the things that fascinate us, the things that we do very naturally and easily, and we're drawn to, like, I think of a neighbor I had who every season, she would redecorate her, both her outside, her sort of front deck, um, to her house. And also her dining room, her living room, dining room. She would decorate it for the seasons. And even though her business was, uh, facials and, uh, aesthetician, um, she had that same attention to detail on what is the environment that I want people to feel when they see my house, when they come into my house.
Persephone Zill (15:56):
And she was just fascinated by, um, going to like antique, like sort of flea markets and thrift shops and stuff. And so she was constantly redesigning. Um, and that's something that prior to working with me on business coaching, she didn't even see that as a super power. You know, she really focused on her schooling and her work in her salon in New York city on facials. But, um, I, I brought that to her attention and out of it, she developed a line of products and put it online. Um, and so, um, with our certified years of working together, by the end, she was like, you hear that ding, I just sold another tonic or whatever. And she designed the bottle, she designed the labels, she designed what went into the products. Um, and so it was a way of using her superpower to expand her, um, income, passive income, so that she didn't have to literally be doing the physical work of the facial as her main way of making money if she had a secondary income stream. And she was so happy that we did our work together because it allowed her to make more money and use her gifts.
Betsy Bush (17:12):
That is amazing. It's something she's doing as a side gig. She's not doing it full time?
Persephone Zill (17:18):
No. Before she full-time now full-time with the salon where she sees clients in the city, and then she works on, um, developing and marketing her skincare product line online. She sells it online.
Betsy Bush (17:33):
A theme that I've been touching on with a lot of my guests has been how the world of work has changed. And I know you've seen those. You were describing your, uh, scheduling all your students, um, at, at the on-campus, uh, grocery store. And you did that without an Excel spreadsheet and paper, pen and paper. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I remember those days. Right. Um, are you, are you finding, um, is it easier for people to find a new pathway in this new kind of very technologically changed world? Or is it harder?
Persephone Zill (18:18):
Good question. In some ways it's easier in terms of all the technology has made it. I think of like, there's a lot of stuff in a box now kind of where you can design a website that has a blog and you can link it to Shopify or one of the other services and you can get it all working so that you can literally be sitting the way we are at our front of our screens and be running a business. So, you know, I got into this, um, I'm trying to think of mid eight, mid nineties is when I started training, uh, entrepreneurs. And, um, at that time it was very much brick and mortar. You know, it was really about much more like location and thinking about finding the perfect location for your business. And, um, but much more hands-on kind of, I think online has actually made it streamlined, I guess, streamlined, I would say, but, but the change and the shift has been learning how to use social media and how to, you know, it's a very much more graphic visual world now that's where you really have to kind of almost be like a producer of Adobe and, um, you know, photos and zoom presentations, um, where it didn't use to be was more, you know, you had a brochure or you had a business card or you or both, and you had a flyer
Betsy Bush (20:02):
And you had a physical store, right. You had a physical store and you're probably not dealing with, you know, leases or negotiating your rent, or I suppose there's also a loss there too, because stores, those little retail stores were part of a community. They contributed to the streetscape and a neighborhood,
Persephone Zill (20:21):
You know, the sort of Amazon and, um, the, the big box businesses have really killed, uh, retail, you know, really. So, so yeah, so now it's, it's easier, I would say to do the online stuff, but it requires a different set of skills. And I think younger folks, like my, I have two college age children and they just grew up with all this technology, you know, it was, what do they call it, a digital native? And so young, younger people, I think, will find the online businesses, you know, to make sense how to set them up and stuff and all the skills needed that we were talking about before. Um, but I think for those of us that were digital immigrants, where we had, you know, we're used to sort of pen and paper folders, um, phone calls, uh, we, we are a little caught out now with the whole shift to the, to the online business.
Persephone Zill (21:25):
Um, but I, I want to use this opportunity now to stress that you have to make sure there's a sizable need for the product or service that you're interested in, that you've really tested it and done your customer discovery. Um, because another thing we do at our center is, is really help people not start businesses where there isn't a sizable need that they're able to fill. And so that's yet another reason to come and do a kind of a, a business plan training or, or it can be a, what's a new thing called the business model canvas, which is much more iterative. And you keep trying and testing until you find the right fit of the business model. So you, you not only have to get to know yourself and what your gifts, talents, abilities interests are, but you need to match it with where there's a sizable need and that you're the person that can reach that audience through the means of where they are living.
Persephone Zill (22:24):
So are they on Instagram? Are they on Facebook? Are they on Clubhouse, this new platform that's just taking off now — Clubhouse. So you need to figure out where your audience is, figure out a need that they is being unmet, and then use your abilities to, you know, set up this online thing and, and do the right key words and the right ads. And, um, I know that if we use like shopping, like sort of, uh, clothing shopping, that something that really works is when they put an ad on your social media, whatever you're looking at, you know, they'll send a few emails to your email and then they'll, they'll put a something on, let's say for me, it would be Facebook that they would say, um, 60% off today only, you know, like a call to action, but they've been slowly feeding you with, uh, different emails so that they're sort of on your mind. And then they do a social media kind of call to action. And so that's the type of thing today as a, as an online entrepreneur, you have to figure out feeder things and then, um, pushing people into action with both your sort of weekly, monthly communications, and then your online social media posts, they have to work together. So that's the kind of, where, where are you going to be living when you do a online business.
Betsy Bush (23:56):
And with an online business, unlike a retail store, your customer base could be national or even international. So do you have people looking at, well, I could, I could sell this thing and it doesn't have to be, you know, how many people are going to walk down the street and walk into my store. But, um, how many people, you know, in this entire country might be interested in buying it, do you, do you take that into account as well?
Persephone Zill (24:24):
It's making me think right before the COVID-19 pandemic started, I attended a branding workshop and in person, and they were talking about how business online businesses today need to use technology. So really the kind of thing where Amazon tells us that our box has been delivered, you know, and there might even be a picture of it at the front door. Um, so they want the technology, you know, we we've been trained now to expect that we're going to get communications. Um, but, but then the marketing on the website needs to be very authentic and really speak to the audience of what they're going through. Like now it might be about languishing from being indoors for all these months. And, um, and so, so the interesting thing that I really I paid attention to at that session was you have to use technology so that you look very big and like using systems, um, but then market it to be very personal, very personal and speaking directly to those traits of your target market.
Persephone Zill (25:42):
So it's an interesting to hold both those things at the same time. Um, so I can't speak so much to international business because I deal more with smaller, more local business, like, um, you know, uh, here in Westchester. That's my, um, kind of when I work with clients, we're looking at maybe Westchester, New York state, maybe the east coast. Um, we're not really looking so much at, but even the whole country or the whole world. Um, you had asked before about resources and, um, sba.gov, small business administration.gov has a new program called ascent, A S C E N T. And it is geared at doing global business. Um, and it's all sorts of trainings and, um, resources for growing your business in an international way. So anyone who's interested in that I would, um, I would check out sba.gov and within that site look up ASCENT.
Betsy Bush (26:43):
That is a great tip. You know, when we conversed before you, you turned me on to a really wonderful book called The Renaissance Soul [by Margaret Lobenstine] which I, um, I've actually talked about on my show. Um, my first episode, the second season, because I loved her calculation. You know, if, if you think I'm 60, if you think like, okay, I'm not sure I can get into all of this online stuff. And I'm really feeling like what you were describing right now. This is making me feel really old because this is like, I am still a pen and paper person. I have all my cards out here with my questions for you. But she had a really interesting calculation, which is take your age now, project, what age you can reasonably expect to live to. And I had nonagenarian parents. So I say, okay, I, God willing, can live to be 90.
Betsy Bush (27:42):
So that's 30 years ahead of me. But then the idea of taking my current age and subtracting that 30 and putting myself in my 30 year old shoes, you know, from that point to this moment, that's a long time. And even if you have that and I have 15 years or however much anybody has, that's a long time, it's a long time to be living with. I can't do that. Um, or do you really want to even look back five years from now and say, I could have done that five years ago and then I'd be five years further ahead. Do you, do you find yourself working with people who are struggling with this? You know, I'm not sure I can take this on at this moment if I want to do it, but it seems overwhelming.
Persephone Zill (28:36):
Yes. We definitely see that. I would say that starting your own business requires a lot of courage and a lot of being uncomfortable. Um, in that it really requires you do things that you, you have to tackle that which scares you, not in a, um, should way or in a, um, if business and society is moving towards more and more digital, that you're gonna have to work with it. And so how can you do it? What classes can you take? Can you bring on interns from the local colleges to do some of the marketing or the social media? Um, but really as the owner, you're going to want to understand what they're doing. So you're going to want to learn from them. Um, and so taking classes, getting help from people that really it does come more naturally. Um, and what I have found is sometimes when you do the things that, um, you sort of think you can't do that can often be the most rewarding.
Persephone Zill (29:53):
Like you look back and you say, I did it. Like I figured it out. I did it. Um, and obviously you don't want to get into something that just doesn't play to your skills. Like we were talking about for a long time. You don't want to do something that is just not in your wheelhouse, but that said, I have to say, I think I've been doing this for 25 years been coaching entrepreneurs. And I think the ones that make it are the ones that they face their fears, and they just keep growing, learning, asking, getting the right support and kind of growing their comfort zone, growing their courage muscle. Um, and then little secret is that once you do it, once your dream gets a little bigger and your being the thing you're going to tackle, it gets a little bigger. And so it becomes a very, it becomes something you want to do versus something you're terrified by.
Persephone Zill (30:53):
So at first it requires baby steps and, and courage, but it's organizations like ours, where here from your tax dollars, so, you know, free services or very low cost, um, and we're here to help you, um, gain garner new skills and new empowerment that you can do it. And so, um, I didn't mention before that at the sba.gov site, uh, you can look up women's business centers. We have a hundred around the country, so different regions, um, and you can also look up what's called small business development centers. The're also SBA resource partners, and they're usually housed within universities. So in the New York city area, there's one at Baruch. There's one at Pace. Um, I believe Fordham has one in Westchester. Um, and so those do offer the similar classes, counseling, networking events, um, access to learning about getting financing for business. So check us out, you know, if this is something that seems like you might want to explore, go to sba.gov, look up women's business centers, look up small business development centers and look up ASCENT, which is more for international and larger business growing your business
Betsy Bush (32:16):
Persephone. This has been incredibly valuable. Uh, wow. I think this is like the most valuable half hour I could offer my listeners. And honestly, my advice is to my listener, get a pad, you know, get a pad and a pen and take notes here because Persephone has the most valuable information. If you are interested in starting a business take note of everything she's had to say, because this is kind of amazing. I've learned so much, you know, starting a podcast -- the easiest part of it is actually doing the episodes. The hardest part is doing the social media marketing. Um, so I may be giving you a call.
Persephone Zill (33:01):
Yeah. And let me tell for the, our website is W E D as in dog, C as in cat biz B I z.org WEDCbiz dot org, sign up for our e-news, it's a weekly newsletter and it has all our upcoming webinars and our 60 hour, the business planning class. And it has some one-on-one individual counseling. Once you have a business plan, so come visit us. And I'm very happy to talk to you, Betsy, cause you're very much running your own business. Now.
Betsy Bush (33:36):
Thank you . You know, I usually ask all my guests to give three pieces of advice, but I feel like this has been 30 minutes of advice, and I don't know if you have anything more you want to throw in.
Persephone Zill (33:49):
One thing I'd like to end on is, um, envision an hour glass, you know, the thing where the sand, uh, pours through, I really stress narrow your focus of what your idea is, and it will expand your opportunities. So it goes in, in narrowing and then expands in terms of reach and, um, client possibility because you really figuring out what does that need, where do they live? What do they spend time on? You know, the more you match, what you have with what they need, you actually then can really, um, leverage it on social media, on a website. In-person, you know, so it's, uh, a lot of times people come to us and they want to be all things to all people, and that just leads to scattered results. So if you want late laser results, narrow your focus to expand your opportunities.
Betsy Bush (34:50):
That's fantastic. We've, I've talked with other guests about the fact that we're not trying to invent the next Amazon. You know, if you find your niche and you find, you know, where there's a need, that matches your skillset. And the niche thing is, is more valuable, especially for people at midlife than trying to conquer the world, which is not really realistic. And maybe that's already been done. Persephone Zill, it's been a pleasure.
Persephone Zill (35:18):
I've really enjoyed it.
Betsy Bush (35:21):
Thank you so much for, for having so much valuable information for my listener. Persephone Zill Is program director at the Women's Enterprise Development Center in White Plains, New York. But as you heard her say, there are similar centers all over the country, at least 100. And the small business association has similar programs that are available for anyone who wants to start a business and needs more information on how to do that. Thank you so much Persephone for joining me today.
About guest:
Persephone Zill, WEDC’s Women’s Business Center Director, brings a wealth of experience with entrepreneurial education and non-profit management. She was the Associate Director at Fordham University’s social innovation lab and a Senior VP at Feeding Westchester, developing strategic partnerships around solving hunger in Westchester County. Ms. Zill previously served as the Program Director for WEDC, training and counseling women entrepreneurs for nine years. She received a BA in American Studies from Barnard College and an MBA in Management/Entrepreneurship from Baruch College.